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Where does Free Jazz end, and Free Improvisation Begin?
#1
I know that there is no single "correct" answer to this question, and that any answer will be somewhat arbitrary. Nevertheless, I'm curious as to how musicians engaged in spontaneous, extemporaneous music-making would answer this question for themseles.

How do you see it?
Artist and Musician in Victoria, BC. 
Lap Steel, Flute, Harmonica, Ukulele
papadafoe.com, revich.bandcamp.com
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#2
(11-20-2020, 12:24 PM)Allan Wrote: I know that there is no single "correct" answer to this question, and that any answer will be somewhat arbitrary. Nevertheless, I'm curious as to how musicians engaged in spontaneous, extemporaneous music-making would answer this question for themseles.

How do you see it?

Can you define free jazz and free improv?
The two seem intrinsically intertwined but maybe I don't understand the question?
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#3
Quote:Can you define free jazz and free improv?
The two seem intrinsically intertwined but maybe I don't understand the question?
There isn’t a single “correct” answer but I’ll do my best. Free Jazz and Free Improvisation are both very different than what had been considered Jazz up until the late 1950s. The big break occurred when artists like John Coltrane abandoned traditionally scored music completely, while simultaneously leaving behind traditional concepts of tempo and key signatures. The musicians just played what they felt, and musicians in a band or ensemble decided what they would play based entirely on what they were hearing from their fellow musicians.

And for differentiating between Free Jazz and Free Improvisation, I see the difference largely n terms of historical context. 
BLUES —-> JAZZ —-> FREE JAZZ —-> FREE IMPROVISATION —-> EXPERIMENTAL—-> NOISE
Free jazz came about in the 50s. It was a radical break from Jazz, but was still played on traditional instruments, in traditional ensembles, making mostly traditional sounds. Free improvisation, beginning in the 70s, went another step, sometimes using non-traditional instruments, using traditional instruments in new ways, using novel ways to ‘score’ or plan what to play, generally becoming looser and looser, until it blended into the realm of experimental music.

There are other ways to look at it too, which is why I started this thread, but this more or less sums up how I see things.
Artist and Musician in Victoria, BC. 
Lap Steel, Flute, Harmonica, Ukulele
papadafoe.com, revich.bandcamp.com
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#4
Is there a difference between Free Improvisation, and Improvisation?
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#5
(11-20-2020, 02:59 PM)DavidS Wrote: Is there a difference between Free Improvisation, and Improvisation?

Yes. Improvisation was fairly common in nearly all forms of music, even in European classical compositions! But until the 1950s, improvisation always occurred within the framework of something else. Part of a blues song, part of a jazz composition. Free improvisation takes place unconstrained by such boundaries. It’s free  Big Grin
I’m a Canadian musician with a background in IT. I am the volunteer that hosts and administers the Free Jazz Forum.
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#6
In my experience, the very best pure improvisers are never truly purely improvising. If they were, you would not be able to recognize the records or performances from one to the next. But this is not a bad thing, it just means that people have spent a lot of time performing and coming up with ways that they can express themselves most clearly at that time.Bottom line in my opinion is that nobody, no matter how freaky or far out they may think they are, does not sooner or later resort to certain clichés and licks that they have played before. But on the other hand, I could be completely wrong I’m just making this up as I go along, but I decided to use English so y’all would know what I’m talking about
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